I'm still watching, and trying my best to digest all of the images from Detroit last night (thank you ESPN and TiVo), where players and fans both did their best to turn the Palace in Auburn Hills into a war zone.
Sure, it all started with a hard foul by Indiana's Ron Artest on Detroit's Ben Wallace in the final minute of the fourth quarter with the Pacers enjoying a comfortable lead, but it soon completely spiraled out of control, with Artest diving into the crowd to settle a score with a fan who had tossed a beer at him.
Just a few thoughts now, as there's just too much to take in all at once.
The basketball crew at ESPN, including John Saunders, Stephen A. Smith, Tim Legler and Greg Anthony all seemed to take the position that Artest had the right to defend himself after getting hit with the beer -- Saunders going as far as comparing Artest's situation to one where a fan tossed a beer at him during a hockey game a few years back, and the police asked him to press charges.
In the main, every person has a right to self-defense. Unfortunately, there's a big difference between a fan throwing a beer at another fan, and an incident involving a player and a fan -- in the latter situation, as we saw last night, there simply isn't any way to keep control of the situation, and to guarantee that someone innocent won't get hurt.
So in this case, it's entirely appropriate for the NBA to fine and suspend anybody who dove into the crowd last night, no matter what the reason, the same way the NBA suspended everyone involved in the Knicks-Heat incident in the playoffs back in 1997 -- and that's going to include folks who were just trying to break things up.
Jumping into the crowd is simply an unaccceptable escalation, and it has to be punished severely. In this piece, Legler seems to suggest that Artest and teammate Stepehn Jackson will only get a suspension of a few games or more -- and don't worry, neither suspension wil affect the team when it really matters, in the playoffs.
Well excuse me, Mr. Legler. For my money, Artest and Jackson should be looking at suspensions in the double digits -- 15 and 20 games respectively, minimum -- in order for the NBA to maintain some modicum of credibility. Nota bene: These are suspensions that will hurt both players in the pocketbook, and their team on the court, and that's the way it should be.
Not to keep banging on the players, but the critical link between Artest's foul on Wallace, and the riot in the seats, was the needless posturing and trash talking that both teams engaged in during the immediate aftermath of the foul. So, instead of helping the refs wind things down, the players cooked things to a boil.
On the ESPN broadcast, and before the beer was thrown, you can hear game analyst Bill Walton say, "They need to find some way to get this game over with, as quickly as possible," and he was exactly right. And it was the players, Wallace and Jackson chief among them, that kept things at a fever pitch
By the way -- it looks like Rasheed Wallace tried to be a peacemaker. Yes, that Rasheed Wallace. Go figure.
Finally, we've got to turn our attention to the stands, starting with the fan who tossed the beer at Artest. What in the world makes somebody think this is acceptable behavior in public? And what in the world makes all the rest of the fans think they can start pelting the court with debris?
It looks like Auburn Hills police have gotten hold of the game video for use in any prosecution. Here's hoping the Pistons work with the police to identify any fan who was involved last night, and ban them from the Palace for life.
In addition, the NBA needs to take a cue from the NFL, and revoke the season tickets of any fan who provided tickets to anybody who was involved in the brawl last night. That's the course the New York Giants took after the infamous "Snowball Game" at Giants Stadium back in 1995 where one San Diego Chargers assistant wound up being sent to the hospital.
More later.
UPDATE: Here's the link to the video on ESPN Motion. Thanks to Billville for the link. For a link to the ESPN in-game footage, click here. Thanks to Shmoos Law Blog for that one.
ANOTHER UPDATE: In Europe, after egregious examples of fan violence during a Soccer match, the home team involved is often forced to play a subsequent match in front of an empty stadium as punishment. That's one option that's on the table in Spain, after this week's friendly match between England and Spain turned ugly when Spanish fans hurled racial taunts at two English players of African descent.
While all Hell was breaking lose in Detroit, I was watching Fox Football Friday on Fox Sports World. It's a weekend global Soccer preview show hosted by two British ex-pats who now live in Southern California. They spent more than a few segements deconstructing the ugliness in Spain, making sure to note that behavior like that was common across the continent.
Ironically, they also said that one of the reasons they liked Major League Soccer in the U.S. was the fact that you never saw racial incidents occur that are so common in Europe. Too bad you didn't have to look too much further to uncover just the sort of ugliness with common roots.
ANOTHER UPDATE: When I watched the video of the entire incident, I couldn't help but notice that as the fight broke out between Ron Artest ane Ben Wallace, the assistant coaches on the Pistons bench all rose in unison to block their players from going on to the floor.
Why? Because as I mentioned in the a previous post, back in the 1997 NBA Playoffs, Commissioner David Stern acted forcefully in the wake of a bench clearing brawl between the Heat and the Knicks. In that case so many Knicks players left the bench, including a number of them who did so to do nothing more than break up the fight, that the incident cost the team a chance to win the series.
Unfair? Absolutely. But was it in the best interest of the league to do so? Absolutely. So much so, that to this day, teams know that they're going to get slammed with major suspensions if they leave the bench.
Now's the time to do the same with this incident. Anybody, and I mean anybody, who left the floor and went into the stands should have to suffer a suspension of one length or another.
The bottom line: the floor is for the players and the stands are for the fans. More on those yahoos later -- though my friend Rob Visconti seems to have a good idea what will be happening next:
The Auburn Hills police and Oakland County Prosecutors office are reportedly reviewing tape of the incident.
Shades of Stan Jonathan and Bruins-Rangers…
I love the empty arena game idea that’s been batted about.
Heh, I was about to say – if no fan was beaten with their own shoe, this brawl obviously needs more Milbury.
The most entertaining reaction I’ve come across so far is Chris Mannix at CNNSI. After saying Ben Wallace is nothing but a big pussycat and lhe lets him off the hook for overeacting to Artest’s foul because his brother had died recenty. Mannix then goes nuts on Artest and goes so far as to say:
“What’s the NBA waiting for? Artest to kill someone? After last night does anyone out there not think something like that is out of the realm of possibility?”
That’s right, he thinks Artest could kill somebody. And this guy makes his living as a writer.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/chris_mannix/11/20/pacers.react/index.html
What happened between Wallace and Artest happened between the lines, and really isn’t all that uncommon, and wouldn’t merit any suspensions if the game clock had wound down normally.
This incident is about the idiotic fans and an incredibly unstable player.
I was very pleased to see that the ESPN guys didn’t all start yelling ‘lynch the black guy’. I guess it helps to have a little color on the panel.
Artest should get 15-20, at least, because even though I like him, his rush into the stands was not warranted. Here’s the kicker. If the Palace had any security whatsoever, Artest would have been stopped from going into the stands, or the guy who threw the stuff at Artest would have quickly been surrounded and carted-off, if not arrested right there on the spot, and Artest would have been placated, or at least felt like he wasn’t in danger of further attacks.
If there was any security whatsoever, the Pacers wouldn’t have been fearing for their effing lives out there! Even the tv announcers can be heard saying on multiple occasions ‘where is the security?!‘ It’s like listening to that tape of the Hindenberg – ‘Oh the humanity!‘
So, who is responsible? Wallace, Artest, and the Palace are all equally responsible for this debacle. We’re lucky nobody died.
Have to admit – was very excited to see those peuky fans gets their asses handed to them. Nice – very nice. Tough guys tried coming down onto the court and Artest and O’Neal said BOO-YAH!
That’s right, he thinks Artest could kill somebody. And this guy makes his living as a writer.
Amen, brother. I don’t know who in the CNN/SI Administration this cat knows, but this was about the worst piece of writing and thinking I’ve ever laid my dainty eyes on. I’ve never heard of the dude, but all I could think as I was reading it was WTF?! I mean, the dude just went off the deep end. Completely. Gone.
His writing is FAAAN-tastic!
Back in 1958 an incident occurred in a nationally televised game at Boston Garden. A couple of Bruins fans were harassing Lou Fontinato who was sitting in the penalty box. The Rangers players on the ice and some from the bench leaped into the stands and swung their sticks at the fans indiscriminately clearing out the front 3 rows of a section. Bruins players remained on the bench and didn’t get involved. There were no repercussions from this as it was dismissed as just hockey. That was the season in which Ranger coach Phil Watson referred to Boston as East Berlin. Justice was later served as the B’s ousted the Rangers from the playoffs in 6.
I wonder if people will consider this incident a death knell for the sport a la Todd Bertuzzi.
The teams “meet” again on Xmas Day, national tube (the day Shaq and Kobe play one another, losta Goodwill Toward Men and such). One nat’l caller to FOX Sports Radio said the fans near him and his son, 10 rows back from the scorer’s table, were drinking beer since the game began, and a few were dropping “f” bombs and the incendiary “n” word at selected Pacers. Even if they were, doesn’t excuse going after them, (after all Artest didn’t have want any part of Ben Wallace, who was a lot closer to him)
When it comes to the fans who wandered onto the floor, I don’t have much sympathy. I’m thinking in particular of a pair of fans in Pistons jerseys who decided to strike up a heated conversation with some Pacers players. The resutls were predictable.
Any wrestling/WWE fan will tell you that if someone is dumb enough to jump into the ring they’re going to get their ass handed to them. I expect the same at other sporting events. Anyone dumb enough to run onto an athlete’s place of work at any time, let alone during a brawl/riot, gets what they deserve.
Agree with Ben. The line between fan and player shouldn’t be crossed (excusing the occasional dive for the ball). As far as I’m concerned, if a fan is on the court in a player’s face, anything the player does from that point is self-defense.
Fans throwing beer and getting violent should be arrested and charged appropriately. Players are under the control and discipline of the league for what they do in the ebb and flow of the game on the court, but when they entered the stands it ceased to be just a league matter and became one for the civil authorities, and the plaintiff’s bar — which is where the real pain is going to be felt. Oh sure, the league still has an interest since the players were wearing uniforms and the league will probably be found liable for some damages, but I cannot now imagine ever attending an NBA game with my kids, especially if someone offered me tickets up close. I’m sure that only the guilty parties were being punched once the fun started.
And about the melee at the South Carolina/Clemson game, I believe a lot of players on both sides should be expelled from their respective universities, not just disciplined by the football program. That’s what would happen if you did something like this on the school’s quad. Hell’s bells, you can get expelled from college these days for saying something someone finds offensive. Tell me how most of them weren’t trying to hurt someone. I was waiting for the cops ont he field to engage in that one after watching the lowlights.
The pendulum will start swinging back hard soon.
Eric-
Largely agree with your take. I had some thoughts as to why the fans might have felt like they were in a consequence-free environment with regard to heckling Pacers players. Check it out…
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